Chris:  You’re listening to the Volleyball Life Podcast from Gold Medal Squared. I’m Chris McGown. Joining us today is Kevin Hambly from Stanford University. He just taken the head-coaching job there after Coach Dunning retired. I talked to Kevin today about his path through coaching and then what it’s like being at Stanford. It’s obviously a really unique school in terms of the student body, the academics, the athletics there. He gives us some impressions about being at Stanford versus some other places. Then he talks about what his priorities were coming in and what they continue to be taking over a new team. And a team, in particular, that’s loaded with talent coming off a national championship win with a lot of young kids and what that looks like. How he’s going to try and build some culture and create some trust and establish some relationships. It’s a wonderful conversation. It makes you love listening to Kevin. Thanks again for joining us and enjoy the show.

All right. We’re back with Kevin Hambly from Stanford University on the Gold Medal Squared Volleyball Life Podcast. It’s awesome talking to you.

Kevin: It’s good talking to you, man.

Chris: Yeah.

Kevin: It’s been a while since we’ve had a chance to chat.

Chris: Yeah. No. Yeah. I was so, so excited for you when I saw that. I got to tell you, it caught me a little bit by surprise. I don’t know why it would because you’re obviously phenomenally qualified for this job and super good fit. I was so excited when I saw it. I have to admit I didn’t see it coming too much.

Kevin: Yeah. I wasn’t really planning on going anywhere. I thought we’re in Illinois forever. Then when the opportunity came up, I started talking to the AD, especially about to fit culturally, the way we want to run the program and it seems like actually a really good fit from those sides. I don’t know. It was hard to make a decision. It’s hard to leave all the kids. I’m excited about the opportunity, not just because it’s Stanford but because it’s a place that I feel like it’s a good fit for how I want to operate as a head coach. As a person that runs the program. Yeah. I was surprised. I don’t know how to feel, to be honest to you.

Chris: Well, that’s cool. What aspect of it when you say how you want to run the program? What elements of it obviously, really high standards in terms of the academics and the volleyball, but what else?

Kevin: Yeah. I think more about how important is the student-athlete experiences for them here and the balance of that. I think one of the challenges is for every head coach or at least it should be is to try to help separate the person from being a student-athlete and being a student… excuse me from being an athlete and a person and not getting any of those tied up into that. I feel like Stanford has a lot of things in place to help with that. That is the culture. It’s like, “Look, you’re a good person but you also have some incredible students. But if the school is not going well doesn’t mean you’re a bad person.” I feel like there’s a whole lot of structure here and things to help go along that way. Sometimes at Illinois, I felt like I was alone and doing that.

Here at Stanford, I feel like everyone is trying to help create this incredible student-athlete experience and help them navigate all the stress as I come with trying to achieve all those things.

Chris: Yeah. I think that my experience around the school in just the athletes that I’ve known that have played there have said the same thing. One of their big priorities at Stanford is we got you here. Now, we want you to succeed. Whatever that means across the board, we want you to have this great experience and we want you to be successful. We’re not in the business of having people flunk out of Stanford or having struggling the whole time. You’re here and now we’re going to make it great for you.

Kevin: Right. Yeah. I think the misconception is that you just get in and then the kids, the Stanford athletes can just drop classes, in the last minute they’re going to fail. They make sure they don’t fail that class and make it work. The way that the whole… it’s not that way at all. In fact, I would say that these kids love school. We sit down and have meetings with them and I’m talking to them and we talk about, “Hey, tell me about this.” This class is called “Think class.” What do you guys do in that? They’re exploring these topics that are ranging from albinos in Africa that are… because they believe that African albinos that they have magic powers, and so they cut off their limbs. What that means to these people that they’ve had their limbs cut off and what’s the… when they remove it from their country and they put them in different place and how they deal with all that, why does it exist to things like making biofuels out of E. coli? When they’re telling this stuff, they’re not telling you because you ask them; they’re telling you because they’re excited about it.

Chris:  Yeah.

Kevin: I think the thing that’s unique is that when student-athletes come here and they’re part of it, they fit. The process of getting Stanford students get into this, whether it’s an athlete or not. The process of getting that student into the university, they have this system that they use and it’s really hard. It’s difficult system for someone that… we want to talk about that with recruiting later. It’s a different deal. But they find the right students here. I think that the process of selecting the students, things that a lot of students say it. They’re really serious about their academics. But they’re also… these really cool kids that are really serious about achieving in a lot of different ways. I think the one thing I didn’t know before I got here is that one in seven students on campus is an athlete. It’s more tied in here. The athletics and the students are more tied in here than any place that have been around because of how few students there are and how giant the athletic department is. It just creates this really cool culture of learning and achievement and they’re all tied in together. It’s just unique. There’s no place I’ve ever been.

Chris:  Yeah, one in seven. I had no idea. That’s an amazing part.

Kevin:  Yeah. It’s great actually. You walk around, you see athletes everywhere. I mean with all these student athletes, so different place.

Chris: Yeah. The good part about that is it’s not like it’s a surprise to any of the professors. “Hey, there’s an athlete in my class. I got to do something different. What is this?” They’re probably used to it.

Kevin:  Because of the process to get in, student-athlete isn’t looked at as any other students. I think one of the other things that’s unique is that we don’t have… the academic services and things that we have provided at other places like we’ve provided in Illinois have this incredible support staff or student-athletes as far as academic counselors and tutors and all that. All that stuff is here. But none of it is mandated. I wouldn’t allow to mandated it because of their own education and their own experience. They have to register for their own classes and they have a couple of weeks to explore before they have to figure out what class they want to take. It’s this place where you’re really here to learn and explore and try to create your own education. The majors are very different where you basically create your own your major and it’s a field you want to go into.

I guess my whole point in this is that there’s a different place and the kids don’t have to worry about failing out of school because they want to achieve and they want to do something that’s really, really special for them and live out a dream and that’s why they came to Stanford in the first place. It’s just a totally different system and coaching these kids and any other place I’ve ever been and anything I’ve ever heard about to be totally honest.

Chris: Yeah. No. That’s for sure a different deal. That’s got to be great. For sure, I don’t know probably brings a little bit different experience to coaching like you talked about.

Kevin: Yeah. I like to tell them why. A lot of times when I talk to my team in Illinois, I’m talking about the why and this is mechanically sound this is why we want to do this. I’d leave it at that. In here, I’m going, “Okay, let’s go deeper.” We’d say, “Look, this is why I was talking to the movement specialist here and these are these muscles and this is what we should be filling,” and they want to soak up all the information I don’t have to leave out the science piece of it and bring the science piece into it. They’re eager to learn it. The first thing that everyone told me was what fits for you has a coach maybe spend a little bit more time on that, especially early why we want to run the system or why we want to use this technique and all the people around the program as I was doing the interview, going to the interview process. All they said is every kid wants to know why you’re doing what you’re doing. If you don’t tell them, it’s not going to work. It’s going to work perfect. I didn’t realize to what level that we can go and how deep it can go. We’re having conversations after about kinesiology and biomechanics and the anatomy of the shoulder and things like that.

Unfortunately, I’ve been reading up on it a lot. Otherwise, I’d be in a lot of trouble here, I could say that. But it’s really… it’s cool. I think it’s just cool that they want to learn. They’re eager to learn. They want to find out all the information.

Chris: I got to imagine it’s pretty good for you because it’s got to push you as a coach too … I don’t know. You’d like to think that you have a full understanding of why you’re doing things. But to some degree, it’s got to push you into areas where it’s like, “Look, I’ve got to be a little smarter myself. I’ve got to learn some things.”

Kevin: Absolutely.

Chris: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. I better make sure what I’m saying is right. They may know more about it than I do or they haven’t thought about it these but I better know exactly what I’m saying.

Chris:  Yeah.

Kevin:  Yeah. That thought is in my mind as I’m sharing things.

Chris:  Yeah. Well, I don’t think a lot of people know just your path into coaching and where things went. Give us a little background. I have the awesome fortune of getting to play with you for a few years at BYU.

Kevin:  Yeah.

Chris: I still…

Kevin: I wouldn’t say that was fortunate. It was fortunate to play with you. You just have to deal with them for a few years.

Chris:  Well, there are so many times where I’m just really glad that my youth isn’t held against me. I just remember thinking, “Man that was wildly…” You were just… there’s so much energy, so much life all the time. Just every time I think of–

Kevin: Yeah.

Chris:   –you in practice, I’m smiling at all the things. You had a great career there as a middle, and then where?

Kevin:  Then I went… got to play overseas. I played in France and then I had an opportunity to play in Italy and they’re talking about the contract and 6’9′ He was way better than me. I’m like, “You know what, this isn’t going to work out here.” I ended up at UNLV and she asked if I’d be interested in coaching with her. I was looking at that. I was going to Argentina for a different contract. I decided that I was going to coach. I had coached little kids in basketball and I coached some club when I was in High Line with Maria Brottner back in the day and Andy Read. I really enjoyed coaching club and all of that. But it was all on the boys’ side. In the summers, there are some things that I work with the guy named Bob Kelly who I think is one of the… he’s a great coached Nevada Juniors for a lot of years. In fact, a lot of the team meet at the final 14 and I think 93, 94 for BYU was one of those players played for Bob Kelly.

Chris:  Yeah.

Kevin:  He did a great job training. Him and I were working together and I was doing camps with him and helping out with high school stuff in between playing and all that. I decided that I would jump at it in the future and get on the women side. I spent five years there. We had some success. But not a ton, we started the program from scratch and they dropped the program. We had a lot of growing pains. We learned a lot. I realize now that I didn’t know anything about coaching and try to run a program and circle a lot of the things that we learn from there. I was doing USA stuff with junior and national team and some of that when I was there with UNLV and Tushi Osheda came by and watch the practice, and they like the way how we run in practice and asked me to be an assistant. I spent four years and got to go in the Olympics and the quad. The whole club, really, just the two of us as assistance coaches.

I got to do a lot, learned a lot about the games. He’s the only person, as a right-hand person, but I was his right-hand and left-hand person.

Chris: Yeah.

Kevin: Right. Yeah. It’s just great. Sorry, go ahead. Were you asking?

Chris: No, no. I was just going to say that’s… sometimes that’s just the best way to do it. It’s just, “Hey, I’ve got all the responsibilities.” I’m going to get good at everything. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. I had to. He was very demanding and it was very different than what it was like to play for your dad and anyone else that I’ve been around. It’s just Japanese style and I just opened my mind up to it and said, “I’m just going to learn as much as I can from this and just dive in.” At the very end, at the very least, at least I’ll know what this is. I see what I want to take or don’t want to take from it. Then I went into coach at Illinois. My wife, Mary Coleman, was a player there. The coach had to leave and they asked us to come back and coach together there. Her and I both jumped at that. Right after the quad, after the Olympics went to Illinois and walked right into a volleyball match and we started coaching at Illinois and then I was an assistant there for five. I was a head coach there for eight after Don Harvey left. I had to learn a lot and… I don’t know. I haven’t been in a lot of places like a lot of coaches. A lot of coaches have moved around a lot. We’re very fortunate that I’ve always been in three places. Before this one, this is my fourth place. That’s my past.

Chris: Yeah. Pretty unusual, like you say a lot of people are, “Hey, I’ve changed jobs ten times, fifteen times,” whatever the case maybe before it ended up in a spot where I wanted to be. I think it speaks a lot just to your capabilities. Once people found you, they held on to you and you’re in some good spots. That’s good stuff. One of the things I want to ask you is, as you were coming into this job, obviously, you’re inheriting a great team; you’re inheriting a great legacy. This is a team that just won a national championship with a bunch of young kids. As you came into it, what kind of mindset did you have? What were your expectations? Just as you evaluated where things were and kind of got your feet under you, what became your priorities? That’s maybe lots of questions. But I guess…

Kevin: Yeah.

Chris:   Just first thing was what was your… as you took the job, what were the most important things for you?

Kevin: Well, the most important thing for me was to get to the… I mean if we’re going to eliminate Illinois, we’re just moving forward. I think about that, one of the first things I wanted to do is I had to say goodbye to the team and then try to help keep together there and call recruits and all that. But once I let go all of that, then literally at the same time I wanted to get to know the players there as much as possible and see what they’re about and have conversations. I mean the reason we all coach… I don’t coach because I like tactics and I don’t coach because I love recruiting or even the matches, I coach it because I love being around with the young women that I get to coach every day and helping them grow and helping develop. My first priority was them and just listening and talking to them and hearing about what their experience is like here and how they’re feeling about the change and how much change there is. There’s a lot of change here for them  and a lot of stress and a lot of worries.

I got to them and then try to introduce myself and talk to them about what it’s all about. Then I got to work on and try to get back together, of course, and all that. I started watching the team and just see what it seems like and what the systems were like. We played them early. We played them last three years. But we knew them relatively well. But it’s different to watch and see what made up that run because I think the thing is the expectation… obviously; the expectation is going to be huge. All these freshmen and sophomores playing, so the expectation is going to be huge. I want to see what they’re doing in that work and what they would do in that… I don’t agree with them, but I might want to change like personnel and all those kinds.

The main thing is get to the players and get to know them. There’s still assistants and all that, we have some time that we could work all that out. But it’s more like just helping them navigate this next couple of months as we get to know each other. I think that’s the most important thing as you try to set the culture that you want to create. It’s a good culture here, but it’s not my culture. I think if you’re trying to operate it, someone else’s culture as a head coach, you’re not going to be as successful. I have to help imprint that culture on this program. I don’t think it’s that far away. I just think it’s got a feel like mine and the players and we’re going to get to the process in putting that together.

Chris: Yeah.

Kevin: You asked a lot of questions…

Chris: Yeah. No, I really like it. It brings up, a, the first thought that I had was one of the things that I really struggle with as a head coach at BYU is working with my dad. On one hand, it’s phenomenal that you get all his wisdom and all this experience and all these resources and just everything that he could bring to bare. On the other hand, it was a little tough having to be my culture and not trying to pretend it was his or doing the things that I wanted to do. I felt really strongly about it as opposed to him saying, “You’re screwing this up. Why is it this way?” Well, it’s because I want it to be that way. This is the way I want the team to be. Hugh and I were talking and we were laughing about it because once he gets an idea, he hangs on to it, right? He never lets you go. It’s like…

Kevin:  Your dad?

Chris: Yeah. Oh, he just dogged you.

Kevin:  Yeah. I think I remember that very well.

Chris:  Yeah, exactly.

Kevin: Yeah.

Chris: He would just pester me every day in practice, “Why aren’t we doing this? What aren’t we doing that?” “Because I don’t want it, dad. Come on! I want to do something else. This is the way I’m feeling about it.” “Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.” Then the very next day, “Why aren’t we doing this?” “Well, I thought we’ve covered this ground. Why are we still here.” I mean I think that that’s one of the most profound things that you’ll say in our conversation today. It’s just it has to be your culture. You can’t fake it and you can’t try to pretend because it’s so hard as a coach to do that. I think that’s big time.

Kevin:  Yeah. I think that’s so… Erin Lindsey just on the topic. Erin Lindsey I brought her with me fromUNLV and she walked to the practice the first day and we had a little. We had an individual time because a lot of our kids are playing beach so we don’t have that much time with them right now. She walks in and we had a 40-minute practice and we get to work and then she was like, “Well, I like your gym.” It does. The gym is an easy part. The gym is an easy part to get them going. Here’s the expectation, this is how we work, here’s how we want to play, here’s how drills move, all those kind of stuff. That happens fast. But it actually create the culture you want. I think it’s going to take maybe a whole year to really get that in place. I understand where everyone is coming from. You have to be still consistent with it. You have to have that vision of what it looks like and you have to share that vision and then you have to help the players execute that vision and help them understand it because they’re not going to get it at first.

Just take time in a lot of conversations, in a lot of getting to know each other. For me, the biggest part about that is getting them involved in the process of actually creating it. I don’t think… the culture and defining it and then getting them to talk about it and make it their own. We’re just starting that process right now and I’m really looking forward to it because a lot of these kids learn how much they think about the stuff. I just mentioned a little bit to them about the culture, how fast they jump or how easy they are to try to make the culture their own. It’s been a really cool start, but it’s a really long ways away feeling like it’s my program right now. I’m looking forward to that process. Though it’s kind of fun because I haven’t had to do that for a long time. It’s been nine years since I’ve had to try to build the culture again. It’s a good problem for me to start.

Chris: Yeah. Well, the other question I had is as you go about trying to create these relationships, what’s the process? I have to imagine that some of it on your part is deliberate. These are the things that I want to do to communicate individually with the players and build these relationships.

Kevin:  Yeah.

Chris: I have to imagine some of it just evolves organically. You just see where things go. But what’s your process when you say, “Hey, I want to get to know these kids”? What do you do?

Kevin: I think the biggest thing you have to do is you have to create a place where they’re free to communicate with you so they know it’s for you and they can speak their mind, and then you have to listen. That’s what I do the most. Just ask questions and I’ll listen to them. That’s where I’m at right now. When there moments they pop up, I look more… I think it’s deliberate. I think deliberate… I mean it’s not about sharing a vision like being in front of the group and sharing a vision and talking about like, “Hey, this is how it’s going to be,” and try to define that. Much more listening and having more conversation and looking for the opportunity to organically talk about things that… how you want to operate as a coach, as those things will rise in the kids’ minds about the program and you as a coach and as you talk about those things. Just look for those opportunities and don’t miss those opportunities to actually have that conversation and talk about them.

I think there’s a deliberate way that I want to go about and there are some things you talk about individually. I think you have to wait till they’re ready to have those conversations, especially when there’s this much change. I mean think about the players. If I have to have empathy for the players in what they’re going through, they lost the head coach that they signed up for. They just won a national championship, which there’s nothing to be empathic about, let me tell you about that. It’s amazing.

Chris: Yeah. We don’t feel too sorry for that. Yeah.

Kevin: I feel that those expectations are here. There’s all those change. That’s great. The expectations are good because you and I both know. We both have had teams that don’t have high expectations or something to manage. They lost their… probably their favorite assistant coach. He wasn’t a good fit for how they structure the staff and they lost their volunteer and they… this is all this change and all these expectations. I think this is like how you can come in and just, I don’t know, hold on my way or hold onto their way and then this is just what it’s going to be and then push. I just feel like you have to know them. They have to get to know me and they have to look for those opportunities to put that in place. Because we’re on a quarter system, I actually have a lot of time here where I really… I’m really happy that I have as much as time as I do and we don’t finish till June 1st to actually put all this in place before we get into the next season.

Going back to the club, there’s things that I want to share. But I really think I need to wait for the opportunity when they are ready to have that conversation, which is sometimes they’re not going to hear you if they’re not ready.

Chris: Yeah. I think that’s an important distinction too. It’s certainly a mistake that I’ve made as a coach is you feel like you’ve got to prove how much you know and you got show what a stud you are and just how intelligent you are and what a great coach you are and you feel like you’ve got to prove it to these kids. It ends up coming on this artificial timeline where you’re forcing your… just you force the issue trying to prove these things rather than, “Hey, look, I’m comfortable with my abilities and I have a clear vision for what’s going on here.” But it’s going to come over time and trust isn’t…

Kevin: Right.

Chris:  I can’t force trust on you, right?

Kevin: Right.

Chris: I’ve made that mistake as a coach is trying to force trust through all these proving it. I like your approach where you’re saying, “Trust is going to be earned over time and these conversations are…” it isn’t one conversation, it’s many, many conversations. It’s probably less talking and more listening and yeah, it’s good stuff.

Kevin: Yeah. I mean the kids get better if they trust you. If they know you care, they care about you. If they know you care about them, then you start to build that personal trust. But on the gym, I got, I actually get texts that say, “Hey, I’m getting better. I’m excited about this,” so I’m starting to build that. But unless they know you care about them, they can’t trust you. You don’t trust people if you know they don’t care about you as a human being. Here I am, a stranger walking into the gym or into the team room and talking to them. I mean they need to know me and I need to know them and they need to know I care about them. I need time to put that and have that relationship and work on that relationship.

I’m extremely patient despite what I was like as a player or maybe as a human being. But in this process, it’s probably the thing that I… it’s probably the one thing that I am really patient with because I just learned over time that you have to be.

Chris: Which for me is this eternally optimistic thing, right? That, “Hey, I’m not who I was. You’re right not right now who you were as a player and you were…”

Kevin: Thank God.

Chris:  Yeah, right, exactly.

Kevin: Yeah, totally.

Chris:  Even now you’re not who you were as a head coach some period of time ago. You’re better than what you were and you’re learning you’ve got an experience. For me, I love that idea. I’ve never arrived. I’m going to get better. Thank goodness, we can be better versions of ourselves as time goes on.

Kevin:  Yeah. I got a little anecdote on that, actually. It was pretty good I have… it was in Illinois, I had a… we’re talking about growth mindset as everyone does

Chris: Yeah.

Kevin:  –just talking about stretching yourself and pushing all that. It’s a bummer when things like that become… I don’t know a buzzword…

Chris: Cliché, yeah. Exactly.

Kevin: Yeah, cliché. They don’t even know what it means, but just trying to stretch yourself and always challenge yourself and all that. I had a banger who is one of my players. She actually led the country in blocking for two years and she ended up coming back as my Director of Operations. People always complain about color commentators and Big Ten coaches…and I was probably one of the people that complained the least. But I still, “It’s okay. Things could be better,” and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But the Big Ten Network called me and said, “Hey, do you want to do color commentator? Do you want to do color commentator for a couple of matches?” I kind of run by Joe who I sit in the office next to her and she was like, “You better do it.” I was like, “Why?” She’s like, “Because you’ll bad at it. You need to grow. You need to stretch.” She’s talking a lot of stuff. “Start challenging yourself and try new things. Man, you’ve got to do it.” I was like, “You’re right. You’re just right!” I thought that was a cool comment. It was also cool for me as a coach that had put that on her and she’s putting it right back on me and I just… I love all that about it.

Chris:  I love it.

Kevin:  You just get better.

Chris:  Why? Because you’ll be bad at it.

Kevin: Yeah, you’ll be bad at it.

Chris: That’s great.

Kevin: I think she secretly wanted me to be bad at it too. But I just like that she was calling me out like, “Hey, go stretch yourself. Keep stretching yourself and keep pushing off.” You stretch yourself. It was cool. It was cool. It was a cool moment.

Chris: Yeah. That’s great. Well, one follow-up question I had was when you say, “I’m trying to work to get my players to know that I care about them,” what do you think that looks like? What do you do or what is… how do they know that you care about them? That was always something that was really important for me and I don’t know I’ve ever had a great handle on it. I think there’s so much that goes on behind the scenes that athletes never see the amount of work that a coach puts in to even have a game plan ready. I always thought like, “Look, the quality of this game plan shows how much I care about you.”

Kevin:  Right.

Chris: I’ve invested so much, but they don’t see it that way. It’s funny because the players that I’ve had that have become coaches just… they come back and they go, “Man, we had no idea.” I’m like, “Right. Yeah, you don’t.” But I guess the question is how do you get your players to know that you care about them?

Kevin: Yeah. That’s a good question. How do you know that people care about you? I guess that’s the question. If I think about that that they don’t care what I do and they don’t care about what my actions are. They want to know who I am as a human being, like who am I really and what motivates me and like what am I about. When I have meetings… you and I have talked about this a bunch of times. But everyone, once every two weeks, we don’t talk about the technique passing. We don’t talk about the school. I don’t know. I just want to… I want to get to know them. I like the things comes up and topics come up. I just dive in and I ask them hard questions about things and I ask them when things get emotional and… I don’t run from that. I dive into it.

When they tell me that they are serious about these changes, then I want to be like, “Tell me what these things. Tell me. What do you… what’s your greatest fear? If you’re really angry at me, come tell me.” I just try to open up the door so they can express who they really are as people. I want to get to dive into who they are and what makes them tick and understanding that they’re 18 to 22-year-old girls that their directions don’t always match up with who they are because they’re trying to sort out so many things. I just try to dive into that and I always assume that… I don’t know how to phrase this. I always assume that whatever actions and things that takes place of it is outside of what I want to be, they’re just dealing with a lot. The way I respond to things and the way I talk about things with them, I’m just trying to get to know them as human beings. I don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s… it’s hard to say how it looks because it’s not systematic. It’s more art than it is science. Actually, it’s more about relationships, building real relationships with them. That’s the key.

Chris: Which are chaotic and messy and lots of hiccups along the way.

Kevin: Yeah. Sometimes it’s disaster. It’s a disaster. Yeah.

Chris: Yeah, for sure. Well, hey, I know you guys got a lot going on here and I just want to tell you thanks again for the chance to talk. I don’t know that I ever got a chance to tell you how much I loved being your teammate. But I loved to come in the practice with you…

Kevin: Yeah. Thanks.

Chris:  –because you are fun and you got after it. You competed really hard and you made me laugh a lot in practice. You’re one of the best teammates that you could hope for.

Kevin: Thanks, man.

Chris:  I’m so happy for the opportunities you’ve had and for the successes. I’m super fired up for you in this opportunity and looking forward to great things.

Kevin: Thanks. Yeah. It’s great to connect and being back out west, I’m connecting with more Cougars. It’s bringing back a lot of… just a ton of great memories, man. When you talk about practice, some things are the same. We had a very special group of people we’ve got to play with and your dad had everything to do with that, but also the people that went there and making it. Your dad got us all in the room together. But I think all the people that were there made it really, really special. I would say it was great playing with you. It was great playing with Hugh who I just ran into. It was an honor. Thank you for that and get to right back at you. Yeah, thanks for having me on this thing.

Chris: Yeah. You bet. It was awesome. Best of luck and we look forward to great stuff from you guys.

Kevin: Alright. Thanks, Chris.

Chris:  Okay. I’ll talk to you soon. Yeah, see you.

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